Waking Life Espresso, a West Asheville staple for over 5 years, has recently come under fire by locals. Owners Jared Rutledge and Jacob Owens, have been collaborating online to produce a blog and podcast alongside a twitter account about their sexual conquests. “Putting the sweet D in the tender V since 2013” is the title of their online narrative, and includes charming entries such as this:
Their username online, Holistic Game, appears to have been pretty active in the Twitterverse, and included content such as this:
This information originally surfaced on Facebook late last night, and since then, the website and Twitter account have been pulled. Fortunately, the internet is forever and we can provide archived content of the Holistic Game Guys. Click here for Twitter, and here for archived content of the blog.
Now dear readers, you may be wondering how we can possibly know that the Holistic Game Guys are indeed Rutledge and Owens? A podcast under the same name, with 21 complete audio episodes published online, available both through their WordPress blog, Amazon, and iTunes. Thanks to an unnamed source, we have a copy of that podcast for you to listen to below.
Holistic Guys Podcast Episode 4
Holistic Guys Podcast Episode 3
Do the voices sound familiar? Check out this Youtube video, starting 38 seconds in, where Rutledge speaks to a local videographer Andre Mileti about Asheville coffee:
Additionally, we have a photo posted by the HolisticGame Twitter account, with a profile picture featuring Rutledge.
We will continue to offer up more information as it becomes available. If you wish to reach our staff about your experience at Waking Life, please email email@example.com
Update 2:52 PM, Sept 19 2015
Jared Rutledge has made a statement via pastebin.
When I was in ninth grade, I looked at pornography on my Christian school lab computers. I got suspended for seven days, and walking into chapel the next Wednesday was hellaciously shaming. It felt white hot. To know that everyone in that gymnasium was disappointed and disgusted in me was almost unbearable. But I’d brought it on myself, and there was nothing for it. That’s the way I feel now.
I know I’ve said and posted a lot of things that are offensive. Most of my life I’ve struggled with insecurities around dating. I felt like, in the past couple years, that I’d finally gotten a handle on this and experienced more success. So I made a twitter, blog, and got Jacob to podcast with me. We didn’t always say nice things, and sometimes we were downright mean. Sometimes I just vented about frustrating experiences in an immature, hateful, and foolish way. It was in particular a breach of trust to post intimate details about lovers. I was naive enough to think it’d stay anonymous, and I was wrong.
So here we are. I grew up in West Asheville and have disappointed and brought shame to the community that raised me, and there’s not really anything I can do to make it right. There are no excuses to be made. The way I’ve phrased and framed my private conduct in a sad and tawdry public way is humiliating. There’s nothing to do but ask your forgiveness for any harm I’ve caused. I’m sorry folks.
Jacob and I are both open to sitting down and talking to anyone who might have concerns to address one-on-one.
Update 2:58 PM, September 2015
Jacob Owens has made a public statement:
I would like to fully admit to what I have done. I would also like to receive the shame and necessary consequences for my actions. I am not hiding nor do I want to deflect. Most importantly, I would like to apologize and express my sorrow for how these actions have affected other people, and how their presence online will continue to do so. People that I care for and value, even though my actions, now out in the open, will not make them feel that way. I feel ill and disgusted with myself when I think of what I have done.
First to explain my part. Jared and I did an anonymous podcast on picking up women where I crassly discussed my intimate experiences with women. I would like to be very clear that I did not author any of the posts of the blog or twitter. But just as worse, I knew they existed. I did not keep up with them, or fully know what was on them. But by knowing that it was going on, and knowing that I was associated however, I am complicit. I fully accept that shame as well.
I would do the podcast with Jared while we were kicking back and drinking whiskey. I had a persona and an ego that would come out while I tried to tell other men who might be listening how to be “successful” with women. Giving others tips on approaching women with your best foot forward is not wrong, but recounting intimate details in a public forum, and speaking of women in a demeaning way is. I am ashamed and wish that I could take it all back. Under a disguise that I thought would be anonymous, without the accountability that good friends hold you too, this persona that I am fully responsible for developed into a chauvinist and a misogynist. I love women. I value them. In my experiences with them they have taught me of kindness, grace, and compassion. Many of my words in the podcast do not reflect that.
Of course I am sorry to be caught, not for my consequences, but that these women will now listen in horror and shame to me recounting intimate experiences we shared. That is my most profound regret and I should be shamed for it. I am so sorry that I needed such a dramatic outcry from my community to teach me this lesson. I have lived a life of duplicity, loving my role in the community as a business owner and friend, while also disrespecting many people in that community that I was intimate with. I have taken everyone that has been so good to me for granted. The coming months will be me attempting to fully process and evaluate my actions, as well as attempting reparation.
I have been calling women that I discussed on the podcast to express my full apology, knowing that it is not enough and that I have no power to fully make amends. Many have been gracious and supportive which makes me feel my shame even more. I do not deserve it. No one is entitled to a second chance, especially after acting shamefully repeatedly. I have also been calling family members. People that raised me in this town with love and integrity that I have proven myself unworthy of.
As owners of Waking Life Jared and I are discussing reparations for our actions, especially to our employees who no longer want to be associated, which is fully fair. I have let them down as their employer as well as their friend, forcing them to leave a job in which they were valued, skilled and passionate. We will release a company statement addressing this tomorrow. We are keeping the doors open and are here because to close and not be present seems like an attempt to hide, and like I said to start I have no desire to receive any less than I deserve.
With shame and regret,
He talks about preying on his employees. And the racism and homophobia are terrible as well.
Other entries are much worse, saying “95% of women are just fucksocks.”
Well looks like you will lose your business now. Great job. You might want to think about getting your act together. Go get yourself some therapy. Maybe you should just leave our town, because you’re a disgrace. Go open a coffee shop somewhere else, and stop preying on the women of Asheville. I hope you get yourself some help. Bwt this is a cleaned up version of what I’d really like to say to you.
I gotta say, I got a weird vibe as a female patron of that coffee shop. I stopped going.
Part of me wants to share this blog with my young teen daughters, as a cautionary tale–so they’ll get the clearest possible picture of what they’re up against as young women coming of age. It’s a truly astounding look at how some men think–a rare overview of some pretty wretched machinations. And it’s worrisome, because you know this kind of thinking is fairly common–and the advent of digital communications means this stuff is so easily published and distributed. It can ruin your life (right, Jacob and Jared?)–and it can ruin the lives of the unknowing participants, in less than a heartbeat. Especially when illustrated with photos or video.
I say part of me wants my girls to see this–and then there’s the voice that says, can’t we protect them a little longer?
21st Century Mom …. you know the answer to your question. The fact that you’re putting it out there means you know you should. They are already not as innocent as you think they are — guaranteed!
Now, I don’t know their ages and perhaps the better way to handle it would be to save a bunch of this info (copy/paste and make your own Word Doc, or something) and present it in their mid-teen years. But I would start now talking to them about these types of things. Consider that it will be a series of conversations over years rather than one big sit-down. They will thank you for it.
I’m mid-50’s and have a local friend who is 10 years older and, interestingly, we had a long talk a couple of months ago about how poorly our parents prepared us for the world, as women. We were pretty clueless as young women and were not treated well by some bosses and boyfriends, etc. It takes a toll and for some women the price has been high.
Parents DO NOT inform or prepare their daughters well. It has to be done with care, of course because you don’t want them living in utter fear or thinking they need to marry the first guy they sleep with. But, please, please…..don’t send them into the world unaware of users and manipulators.
** And, PEOPLE! Tell your kids over and over that anything they put on the internet or their phone is archived. ALL OF IT! It can be obtained and used against them.
Most folks feel some sense of humiliation and shame when they get called out. You have to. What’s the alternative?
This type of thought and behavior does not change over night. The first person I’d recommend you sit down with is a therapist. If you honestly have any interest in recovering from the way you’ve thought about and treated women, I believe it’s going to be a long, hard road.
But honestly, I don’t think you would have ever been sorry had you not been found out. That’s the worst part. Forgiveness? Nah. Awareness? Yep.
The fact that he says he thought he’d stay anonymous proves that he doesn’t really regret anything other than being caught.
Nonlogic. It does not prove anything of the kind. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, as one refers to what he believed in the past (not even really a feeling), and the other is a statement about how he’s feeling now. I don’t know these guys, and don’t condone what they said and did (though feminist literature and websites online are FILLED with male-bashing and violent abuses against men that are far worse than what these men did)… so with all due respect, your statement is just plain wrong.
This is my response to their apology and the comments from their blog and podcasts:
I have chosen the following excerpt from Jared’s blog because although it is infuriating, it is still low on the scale of misogyny and vulgarity compared to the rest of his posts:
Here is a direct quote from Jared Rutledge’s blog (the owner of waking life) in reference to the struggle of finding a perfect woman:
“…the biggest barrier to commitment with most of these women wasn’t their sexuality or their femininity. It was either that I didn’t find them beautiful enough or interesting enough to warrant commitment. Many of these girls could help themselves immensely by reading a few classic novels and working out a little. But they get attention regardless, so the motivation to better themselves isn’t present. It’s unfortunate. That said, I think it’s possible to find value. If you’re willing to hang around in the 6-7 range looks-wise, you can lock down a young, intelligent, girl who will make a good partner and mother. The question is really how much you’re willing to compromise where beauty is concerned.”
So the above shows his is a standard (and confused) chauvinist who believes a woman’s only value is beauty and sexual desirability, and yet wants to claim that intelligence and interestingness are also a value. Clearly they are not, since those qualities would “be a compromise where beauty is concerned.” He believes women are sex objects whose only valuable qualities to a man are their bodies.
Not only did they have a twitter and a podcast (run with the other co-owner of waking life) talking about how to exploit women, they also went into detail about each encounter, rating women on their attractiveness, how good they were in bed, and other REALLY personal information.
That wouldn’t even be the worst of it if they didn’t openly say that the ideal woman is submissive in bed (and otherwise), with disgusting violent descriptions of “submissiveness” that go beyond playful “rough” sex. Basically suggesting that an ideal woman must be a 10 and must ideally engage in degrading sex which what may include beatings and “choking her with your D”
And here’s why I also think that you are confused chauvinists…among your disgusting, shaming reviews of women, you also kept complaining they weren’t smart enough. That’s because smart woman can see your behaviors and comments as Red Flags.
And the good, smart women you charmed into having sex with you… I promise if they didn’t already regret it, they certainly will once it comes out that you PUBLICLY REVIEWED THEM in a crass and demeaning way.
Another thing Jared harked on a whole lot was “femininity” which he misconstrued as submissiveness, not only in the bedroom, but in general. He was basically looking for a woman who would tolerate all of his selfish, degrading behavior and yet be smart and interesting. Most smart and empowered women are going to see through your Game eventually.
That being said, being a smart woman usually consists of not considering yourself a servant to any man and not making it a priority to upkeep your body just so he doesn’t lose interest in you. As a smart, empowered woman, you know that your body is not just a fun toy for a man nor does it define your value. Women are a diverse set of qualities with many talents, interests, and purposes.
SMART WOMAN, REGARDLESS HOW HOT, ARE NOT GOING TO TOLERATE HOW MUCH OF A PIECE OF SH*T YOU ARE.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR APOLOGY, YOU SCUM BAG.. IT”S NOT JUST THAT YOU “SAID MEAN THINGS,” YOU CLEARLY SHOWED THAT YOU THINK WOMEN ARE JUST A FLESH-OBJECTS WITH A FEW USEFUL ORIFICES AND THAT THOSE FLESH-OBJECTS BETTER KEEP LOOKING GOOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOU, (A MONSTER) INTERESTED. Who knows the emotional wreckage you left in your selfish, perverse endeavors.
We are all mad at you as a community of men and women, because we do not agree this is not an acceptable way to view woman, nor is it acceptable way to treat women and we do not want someone like you as a prominent business owner within our community.
Amen! That’ll preach!
Their beliefs are arbitrary to the service they provide. The only mistake they made was getting caught.
“this is not an acceptable way to view woman” You don’t get to tell anybody how they should view anything. These guys broke no laws, just your personal ethical code. Get a life.
Excuse me, but do you genuinely think women fall under the category “anything?” We are not fucking objects. We are people. And yes, I can bloody well tell anyone that fellow human beings are deserving of respect unless they prove otherwise, as you did here.
I feel so sorry for you.
Sign the petition to stop supporting their business and products here: https://www.change.org/p/whole-foods-desoto-lounge-orbit-dvd-west-village-market-and-deli-hopey-co-earthfare-appalachian-vintner-ben-s-penny-market-diamond-brand-duncan-and-york-horse-hero-roman-s-deli-and-c-pull-waking-life-espresso-s-flash-chilled-coffee-off-the-shelves?recruiter=389365284&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
LOL then they lose my business. No one’s talking about throwing them in jail. Just about their native character as human beings. Which sucks. Wanna support and defend that? Seems that there isn’t a lot of mainstream support for that. But go ahead, continue defending misogyny, disgusting and predatory behavior in young men, this has been a banner day for you, I’m sure.
And that is why they are not going to jail. Deciding not to drink coffee served by misogynistic dorks isn’t a criminal punishment, it is how a capitalistic society works.
Going to jail for WHAT, you idiot?? Unless there’s evidence that any of their sexual activity was not consensual, there’s no law against being callous and having sex with a woman for your own pleasure. I have NEVER sexually exploited a woman or forced any woman to do anything against her will, to be clear… more of the “too nice” problem… but statements like yours are absolutely ridiculous. There are undoubtedly MANY women in Asheville right now who are engaged in FemDom (female domination) relationships with men on a daily basis, in which they mistreat and abuse men FAR worse than anything these guys did (as insensitive and disrespectful as it was). People like you, seemingly brainwashed by feminist rhetoric, and hating men without looking at both sides of the issues (including the hatespeech by feminists against men that is plastered ALL OVER the internet, which you refuse to criticize), is one of the main reasons we can’t have productive dialogues about these issues. If there’s a crime that they committed that warrants jail time, please tell me what it is, as you didn’t mention it in your comment. Thanks.
Fred, no one is saying they should go to jail. Rick’s comment was in response to Simon who said that these guys didn’t commit any crimes. Rick was basically saying “you’re right; they didn’t commit any crimes and that’s why they’re not going to jail but we’re still not buying their coffee”
In the BDSM community and in healthy dom-sub relationships, there’s mutual consent b/t the dom and sub and the dom does respect the sub, which is what most fem-doms do (they “abuse” their sub w/ the sub’s permission, but they don’t go around bragging and publically humiliating them (unless that’s what the sub wants))
So the part where homie basically admitted to fucking someone who couldn’t consent? Rape is not a crime in your book? And yeah, actually, we can decide that how scumbags like these guys treat and think about over half the population of our planet is indeed of concern.
So??? Guys that own coffee shops can’t have very active sex lives?? If it fills a void in their ego, or is a turn on or is just fun… I care not..
Do they make a good Breve’? That matters…
I’m a chick…sex is a part of life.
Sex is a part of life, very active sex is a part of life. Non-consensual, slut shaming, and explicit sexism IS even, unfortunately, a part of life. Our society tries to tell us that this stuff is normal, but it ain’t. And to answer your question, of course people who own coffee shops can do whatever they wish, but when they are found out and boycotted or hated because they’re sexist, racist, bigot pieces of shit who prey on women using a front that is also a part of life.
Are there entries which name and shame women or describe non-consensual acts?
It would take a lot of sorting, as there are a few hundred comments that got pulled up, but there is one where the guy explicitly states that he fingered a girl who was telling him she didn’t want to have sex because he though she “needed pushing”.
This is about me. Is the podcast still available? Because I want to speak out and support any legal action brought against these guys.
This is an audio clip of Jacob Owens Co-Owner describing how he had non consensual sex with a girl they had previous degraded all over their podcast.
Adding some SEO here so people can find this. Jacob Owens Waking Life Coffee, Holistic Game
Agreed. Bad decisions don’t get band-aids.
And why can’t people learn?? If you’re going to be an a-hole, which is your complete right, don’t do it online where it will never ever disappear, and then apologize. You made the decision. Be proud of it. Or freaking don’t do it. But you can’t expect what you do online won’t be figured out.
Crazy wild ridiculous gross sex is awesome for the right people. What they did was just nauseatingly disgusting.
Whenever possible, I’d rather spend my money in an establishment that doesn’t hate women or at the very least one whose owners aren’t so ignorant to post their cruel behavior.
The issue isn’t an active sex life. The issue is the disrespect and mean spirited behavior they have towards women. Sexually active does not mean actively cruel.
do you really think that he’s being criticized for having an active sex life? have sex with as many consenting people as you want, that’s your business.
people say some sick, psychotic things when they believe they are anonymous online. should we really accept that as healthy? i don’t think a decent person would ever want to say the things he did. at least, the community should be aware of what kind of person he is, if he really feels that way.
Totally… I commented WAY before I pieced together the whole story. I defend a person’s sexual freedom, however since my first comment I see now that this is a matter of sexual deviousness, not just a horny dude looking to score….holy shit…. I cannot unread his vitriol for the woman alive on the planet… Even worse is how many others out there are just like him.
Really women should be treated that way? Some people are so stupid.
Thank you. Let’s not associate everyone’s public lives with their personal lives. We’ll destroy ourselves.
Totally… I commented WAY before I pieced together the whole story. I defend a person’s sexual freedom, however since my first comment I see now that this is a matter of sexual deviousness, not just a horny dude looking to score….holy shit…. I cannot unread his vitriol for the woman alive on the planet… Even worse is how many others out there are just like him.
Nobody is saying they can’t have sex lives but commenting it in such a way as they did on social media and being complete arrogant assholes about it is. Like someone before said, these BOYS are just pissed off and upset because they got found out for who they really are and are being forced to make a half assed apology.
You’re a DUMB ASS is what you are. This isn’t about their private sex lives, this is about their very public accounts that they published online for the world to read about their private sex lives. This kind of sick behavior especially with woman who were ADMITTEDLY emotionally unhealthy and vulnerable, is inexcusable.
I wonder how he would feel if he were rated the way he rated women. It’s sickening. The most shocking part is that he expected these women to be empathetic and kind. To what end? So that he could be sure his behavior would hurt them?
I suggest that women able to do so DO rate them LOL LOL LOL Unreal – insecure little BOYS
lol you’re the one crying about one man’s opinion. YOU’RE insecure. lmao
Actually, a woman did just that. She was either an undergrad or grad student at Duke. She chronicled all her sexual encounters, even named the guys, and talked about their penis size, performance in bed, etc. Let’s not act like this has never happened from a women’s perspective. And to top it off, people applauded her when she took responsibility for it and people dared others to shame her for it.
I used to consider you a friend. I’ll never talk to you again because of this.
I went out on a few dates with him. He told me that because I said I wasn’t ready to have sex with someone on the second date that it was ME who was the misogynist because I opposed women being sexually liberated. Wait..What? After reading the disgusting things he writes about people I am SO glad that I got far far away from him. Absolutely disgusting. And furthermore, the horrifyingly crude and violent narrations and comments aside, what makes him think he’s so goddamn special that he deserves to be the judge of all women’s appearances, intellect, personalities, and otherwise? Not a low blow dig at someone’s looks but this guy isn’t fucking Brad Pitt either. To any women out there who did indeed sleep with this monster, I am sorry to you that he would post such intimate personal details. But it isn’t your fault- who knew? Simply repulsive.
Monster. Pretty much sums it up.
WOW. So, because you did not want to have sex yourself, you were oppressing other women who wanted to have sex? The reach is strong with PUAs and MRAs. Glad this dude is exposed.
He may have been reading out of the playbook, where you “should” have reacted to his accusation of misogyny by trying to prove that you weren’t a misogynist, i.e., providing sex. Lucky miss!
True ammends may start here but would be the beginh of a journey. I would recommend counseling or ManKindProject, along with some hefty donations to OnrVoice and a commitment to learning about the impact of sexual violence and the impact of culture on women. A would not want him to remain in the shame of his shadows as that only leads to more harmful behavior towards self and others. I would hope for his true growth and freedom to be a better person in this world.
Jacob, you mentioned in your podcast that you had sex with my daughter,while she was medicated, while in the hospital.. Your words are she could not have consented due to her medicated state.
One question- do you have a lawyer?
Please sue this asshole
A’s mom, i do not know the details of the particular podcast you are referring to. but if you would like advice on what can legally be done about nonconsesual sex contact Our Voice http://www.ourvoicenc.org/
Please let us all know how we may assist in filing of charges against your daughter’s rapist. If you’d like to create a separate email account in which you could be reached and all resources could be offered, that would be wonderful.
Fabulous. That’s a CRIMINAL charge BTW – not a civil suit. Could land his butt in JAIL 😀
This fucking MOTHERFUCKER
make sure you get a recording/copy of that podcast…you go after him! i’m not listening to any of them but these guys are sick…
A’s mom, Our Voice is the place to go. I’m so sorry to hear this, and it’s exactly why I didn’t listen to the podcasts. As a victim, just reading your description had me in tears. I know it’s scary as a mom to hear that this happened to your daughter when she was so vulnerable. I hope that she goes to the authority and takes his ass down! In the meantime, know that you have the support of Asheville behind you!
Oh I hope his ass ends up in prison…I’m a rape survivor…I’m behind you 100%…Our Voice is excellent by the way! Grateful for the services they provide to our community.
I’d like to link to that particular podcast…because apparently some of my “friends” dont see the crime in their behavior…where can I find the podcast?
A’s mom – “A” should go talk to the sex crimes detectives at Asheville Police Department. That is rape and he should be charged. I’m sorry that this has happened to your daughter. I can’t even imagine. I hope this scum is held accountable for his actions.
A’s mom, please let A know that she’s getting nothing but sympathy. We’re with you and her and so very sorry this happened. I hope there is justice to be had.
A’s mom, we are all behind you! Please take legal action against this scum!
to A’s mom: would you call me at 919-510-8937? I’m interested in talking with you for a possible story.
I don’t know why my last comment on here was not posted….but I personally know the person who posted as “A’s Mom”….they are NOT the woman’s mother and just posted this to stir up crap. Feel free to contact me if you need proof. What these guys wrote was awful…but the rape accusations have gotten out of hand. This sex was between two consenting adults.
According to the blog it wasn’t consensual. Women can’t consent while drugged.
Actually, no, sex where one of the partners is incapacitated is not between two consenting adults. It’s rape, or at the minimum, sexual assault. Whether or not a random commenter on an internet thread is actually the victim’s mother doesn’t change the criminal nature of the act itself.
Sex when the other person is incapable of consent is rape. Full stop. No exceptions.
Please please please sue.
True ammends may start here but would be the beginh of a journey. I would recommend counseling or ManKindProject, along with some hefty donations to OneVoice and a commitment to learning about the impact of sexual violence and the impact of culture on women. A would not want him to remain in the shame of his shadows as that only leads to more harmful behavior towards self and others. I would hope for his true growth and freedom to be a better person in this world.
Sorry for typos on my phone
Run this piece of shit out of town. He’s clearly only sorry he got caught.
Dude is just sorry he got caught. This man thinks he is hilarious. Obviously just really insecure and unattractive. This man thinks that being sexually aggressive and assaulting women is funny (I’m referring to the ‘gag her with my dick’ comment here). He can’t keep a woman because any strong, smart woman would pick up on all his red flags. Fuckboi for sure. He said he thought he’d remain anonymous, how stupid.
This entire thing is a testament to the power of the local community. We are capable of great things.
Here’s Jared and Jacob now.
FYI that link is bad; 404 error.
Just guessing that by Monday when Daddy hires a decent PR firm and a lawyer to defend against the pending date rape charges, the weird rambling confessional apology will disappear and some form of “we were hacked” will be floated in the toilet bowl.
I feel like I am going to be sick. This half witted piece of shit is no man. I say half witted because he was enough of a mental midget to post these depraved rantings online and expect to stay anonymous. This isn’t about a healthy sex life. this is about a business owner who lives off of money he gets from people in the “community that raised him” that he finds no value in and has no use for. As a community these men should be run out of business and treated with the kindness they have showered onto others. A’s mom, I hope you have a lawyer. For all the women abused by this cruel creature, I am sorry to you.
Pornography is a big problem, this type of stuff will become more prevalent as the future unfolds. Our kids are in need of love and support more than ever, innocence is getting harder to maintain for them. This is sad for everyone involved.
Until today, I went to Waking Life a few times a week. I told friends and visitors to check out the great little cafe with great espresso drinks. I recommended it to everyone! If only I had known who I was supporting. I want to say that the staff were all so friendly, helpful, good at the jobs and make excellent drinks of the highest standards. I hope they never set foot into that place again and I hope they’re snapped up quickly by another quality coffee house like Odds or High Five.
I would never in one hundred years return to Waking Life so long as it is under their management and ownership. It is my true hope that both of these men seek real help about their sick, twisted perverted attitude towards women. Jared and Jacob, when you read this, as someone who you used to interact with weekly and supported your business for years, I beg you to seek help and make a sincere effort to help mend- not further- the rape culture, slut shaming and misogyny that, as a human and as a parent- and a member of your community, your neighborhood- terrifies me so.
You can get help if you admit your wrong doing and reach out. You will know doubt lose your business, livelihood, your standing in the community, your dating life and many of your friends through this ordeal. See this as your rock bottom and start again down a new path.
From now on, I’ll be buying my coffee at High Five, which is owned by a very good man, great husband, good teammate and father of two small children, and Odds, run by a hardworking and ran woman.
I would sit down and discuss this matter with these people … never. Not shutting them down, hoping they grow and learn from mistakes but I am personally divesting myself from their shop, their coffee and their persons. Not interested in being around them ever. Twists my mind to think I chatted and smiled with such a scum bag.
This is why I go to Starbucks. Don’t have to deal with this crap
I own a coffee shop and I don’t conduct myself in this way. Don’t push out small businesses because of these terrible human beings.
This makes zero sense. What are you talking about?
Exactly. Because only small business owners are criminals. Corporations can’t commit crimes because they are not people who own small businesses. They are not even people. Um, wait. They’re people and, um, independent lattes are made by people who don’t wear green smocks, so, yes, I’d like a Venti overlord latte, sir, and thank you for being such a respectable citizen coffee purveyor. Ahem, yup, yes, yes, yes, thank you. Can I get that to go? I’m late for my good-citizenry treatment and subsequently I think I like to avoid local businesses because they are all criminals.
as fucked as this whole thing seems to be, and as stupidly shitty and misogynistic as the owner of waking life may be, i feel worried for the actually awesome and talented baristas employed there who probably didn’t know about their asshole boss’s extracurricular activities. I’ve had awesome and respectful interactions at waking life with john and other folks that work there, and if shit falls apart due to Jared’s abhorrent behavior, i hope they are still afforded respect in this small city, and that they are able to quickly find new jobs that are fulfilling and pay them well.
The coffee community is reaching out to the baristas.. They are loved an will be taken care of.
Yeah, I was kind of worried about that to. I am glad that the coffee community is reaching out to them.
You can’t write your way out of this one, fellas. You have been unmasked as the worst type of bros-the rapey, Barely Legal, gag-her-with-my-dick kind. The kind that makes their mothers, sisters and fathers horrified to be related. And there’s really no redemption for those types. This is not something you thought would be cool, or something you picked up from the latest Red Bull wet t shirt contest, or read about on 4 chan. This is systemic, ingrained, full on misogynistic-no, fuck that, it’s misanthropic-hate speak, and it’s pathetic, disturbing and incredibly harmful.
The world needs less people like you.
I foresee a lonely future for both of you.
Fuck off, and stay fucked off, boys.
Obviously hes read entirely too much I hope they serve beer in hell… The ones I read weren’t so bad.. But I’m sure there are worse… This kinds ahit doesn’t really apall me… I loom at the world differently.. Sex and love for MD do not typically go hand in hand… We are even those most have somehow forgotten. Animals.. We are mammals.. We are designed to procreate.. We are attracted by physical attributes.. Just as birds and other animals.. And pheromones. Just the simple scent of someone can change the feelings.. Yes hes being brutily honest.. And somewhat of a dick… But in my eyes I’d tdkr brutily honest than fake any day
Sadly in my experience guys like this have little repercussions. With a little help from mommy and daddy at worst they’ll just move shop to a nearby city and continue on barely skipping a beat.
BTW this is sinking to their level but so what, based on that embedded video Jarred is aggressively unattractive and looks like a slob. The neck beard mixed with the long unwashed hair is nauseating. I imagine he has to really rely heavily on the fact that he was the owner of a”hip” coffee shop to ever get a date. I would love a screen shot of his okcupid profile, I bet he put “owner of waking life” in all caps within the first sentence.
Not one bit of apology on their website or facebook. They are sorry they got caught.
As someone who they wrote about on their site (discovered this mess today) I was shocked and appalled by what they wrote about women. I couldn’t believe my eyes on the ranking, the horrible and disgusting rants on how each interaction went down. I felt disgusted that someone I once knew turned into such a disgusting and horrible person. I would like to thank the protesters today, all the wonderful comments I have read from everyone in the community as well as their Facebook review page of bringing them down. It made me feel a whole lot better about myself. I hope a strong lovely woman buys them out and hires men and women who love and support each other as human beings in the community with feelings.
Who cares? As a sexually empowered woman, I embrace casual sex. But Im heterosexual. I can’t have casual sex with men if there aren’t men interested in casual sex. I think other women just might not understand that casual, unencumbered, hookup sex, HAS TO BE FINE FOR BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. Not just women. You’re only a feminist if you think equally….and if casual unencumbered hookup sex is fine for us, it has to be fine for men too.
apparently you did not read the article. This is not just about casual sex lives. Why don’t you actually read it then come back to for a real comment.
So as a woman I would say it’s a bit unfair to throw such a shitfit over some guys kissing and telling. When we’re alone with girlfriends, we talk. We talk guys and we talk sex. I’ve never had anyone go after me and try to ruin my career with accusations of violating someone’s privacy (even though that is basically what it boils down to).
I can’t help but feel like the sex positive movement isn’t going both ways like it should. I can have casual sex as much as I want and be proud about it, even joke about how easy it is to get a guy wrapped around my finger even though I’m just using him for a cheap thrill. That’s the magic of sexuality in 2015. But when guys do this they’re seen more or less as sex offenders. They’re apparently not giving their female partners due respect… I’ve treated guys as mere cocks to ride, where’s my backlash for not “respecting them as people”?
It’s one thing to talk about a woman to your guy friends, and a completely different thing to take it online for the world to see.
that logic does not hold up. who said she doesn’t also post her escapades online? you’re just a hypocrite.
Wha huh who?
Are you Donald Trump? C’mon, fess up!
Or does he have some online school for dipshit argumentation that we can sign up for? Because I need some help deciphering your nonsense.
So it’s different because why? Because my circle of friends is smaller than his measly 99 twitter followers? So tell me, what’s the threshold number of people I can blab about before it becomes a “completely different thing”?
You’re right. You’re a shitty human being, too.
i second your comment …she is a shitty human being too…
Here’s why it’s different:
I’m two states away, and now I know the ratings for every girl this guy ever banged. I am all for people being free to have sex with whomever they please, but when you are then going behind their backs and telling the entire world that she was a little boring, but at least you got to fuck her in the ass…I mean seriously, how is that okay? If the girl knew he was blogging that stuff and did it anyway and was fine with it, sure, but CLEARLY they did not know.
You obviously didn’t read everything. When I first heard about the story and started reading, I too thought this was just an immature man airing his private sex life… then I got to the root of the community anger. Read the twitter and listen to the podcasts. This is not about sex. And by the way, rape is not about sex either. To gloat about raping someone is sick and twisted. To speak about women in such a demeaning way is also not about sex. I will never set foot in there again and am sick that I supported this establishment. I sincerely hope the parents of the girl who was raped while sedated in the hospital bring charges against him, as they alluded to in the comments. And I hope with all my heart that she is ok and surrounded by loved ones ….. cause this was not ok. Not okay on any level.
Sierra, did you not read the entire thing? Did you skip the part where he had sex with a young woman in tbe hospital and he admitted that there’s no way she could have consented?
If you did, indeed, read these things and still feel the need to defend him then you need just as much help as he does. Get some help.
Are you kidding?????? Seriously, no really, are you?! This goes so far beyond kissing & telling… this is SICK, horrible, inexcusable behavior and is not just about casual sex and blabbing. This is about RAPE, it is about publishing intimate accounts of sexual relations on the internet and bashing women as if they were not even worthy to breathe the same air as these scum bags. Did you read any of what was published? It’s sick. This has nothing whatsoever to do with liberated casual sexual encounters and bragging. This is entirely different and it is unforgivable.
I’ll give you some backlash. Treating people as “cocks to ride” or finding it cool to “joke about how easy it is to get a guy wrapped around my finger even though I’m just using him for a cheap thrill” doesn’t sound empowered or magical. It sounds calloused and aggressive, and makes me wonder about your insecurity and level of self-hatred, which seem to be the real issues for people who act glib about being cruel and uncaring towards others.
Full disclosure: I went to school with both of these men and at 1 point considered them both friends. Time and distance obviously change your friendships in life and I’ve not spoken to either of them in quite some time. I really don’t care about the sexual exploits as that is between them and the women who chose to engage in the behavior with them. I just feel for their parents as their parenting skills will surely be judged by their peers after this news spreads more. They both have incredible parents who raised them the right way (and no I don’t mean in a christian household as that can’t be right or wrong in my opinion) I mean they raised them with love, attention, and more than anything, respect. One of them never had a girlfriend all throughout high school so this type of behavior where you count the number of girls you’ve slept with doesn’t really surprise me and frankly, I don’t believe most of it. This has absolutely nothing to do with the “pornography”, although not involved, I know the details of the situation, more boys than Jared were involved and for the most part, they’ve all turned out just fine.
What you have here are 2 men who were irresponsible enough to share their thoughts with the world and didn’t do a good job of making sure they stayed anonymous. What person in the world doesn’t judge others? Who doesn’t look at a man or woman and instantly decide for themselves whether they are attractive or not? This doesn’t mean they need “counseling” or “help”. It means they need to stop putting this stuff on the internet or do a better job of truly keeping it anonymous so that their business, and the livelihood of those they employ are not in jeopardy. Sexuality is a part of life and the women they slept with chose to do the things they did, chose to join the hook-up sites. It’s not wrong, it’s not sick or twisted, it’s people choosing to act on their emotions and desires, and it doesn’t impact whether or not they can be good members in society, who pay taxes, give back to the community, provide jobs, and make a damn good cup of coffee! I wonder what all the people on here who believe they should be closed down and won’t support them any longer would be saying if your shit was out for the public to see. So save the “only sorry because they were caught” stuff, we’re all only ever sorry once we get caught. Not that you want it, but my advice would be just don’t sleep with either one of them! But this is the world we live in and the same people who are on here judging these men are the same people who will be sitting watching trashy TV with one night stands, and casual hook-ups and not thinking twice about it. The double standards are hilarious and I for one am glad I can be honest enough with myself to realize that these men are no worse than me, and that this is just another case of social media biting someone in the ass and I really hope it doesn’t ruin them altogether. Again, I feel for their parents.
This is not about sexual choices. I think few people on this comment board would try to argue for only certain types of sexual behaviors, we are in AVL after all. It is about the continuous hatred of women that spilled from his blog and podcast. It’s ok to have all kinds of sex when its consensual, it’s not ok to kiss and tell and be hateful in the telling. See comment below.
lol if someone said the same of men, they would be praised. you can’t accept someone saying the exact opposite about women as you do of men.
“If someone said the same of men, they would be praised.”
Really? Show me one example. Anywhere in history. Go ahead. I have time.
“What you have here are 2 men who were irresponsible enough to share their thoughts with the world and didn’t do a good job of making sure they stayed anonymous.”
“I wonder what all the people on here who believe they should be closed down and won’t support them any longer would be saying if your shit was out for the public to see.”
Spoken like a true sociopath. What you don’t understand, friend, is that most people _don’t_ talk like this. Most people _don’t_ make a cottage industry out of scoring, complete with podcasts, twitter feeds, and detailed notes. Most people generally try to go through their lives _not_ shitting upon other people for sport. (Figuratively, although I wouldn’t put the literal past these two dimwits.)
And why would you feel for their parents, if the only problem is that these guys were caught? Why should the parents feel any shame? If you don’t think the guys should feel it, then why should it reflect poorly on their parents? Own your moral ambivalence.
Rape is not an “exploit”.
They’re not being judged for what they did sexually. They’re being judged because of their opinions on women. If they think so lowly of the women they’ve slept with, they shouldn’t have slept with those women.
Being a good member of society doesn’t make you a good person. You can donate to charity and pay your taxes, and still be a bad person in other ways.
Not everyone is “only sorry once they’re caught.” If I wasn’t sorry about something I did before getting caught, I wouldn’t be sorry after getting caught either.
“These men are no worse than you?” Do you hold such hateful and disrespectul opinions about all people of a particular gender/sex? Because if you don’t then, in this regard, they are much worse than you.
Jacob although I saw through your inflated ego and your dissonance around several obvious insecurities, I am so sorry that I shared my abuse story with you after you got me drunk, then asked me to fuck your brother so you could fuck my friend in the same room. I cannot believe what I have read. At least your brother was extremely kind and civil, now I don’t even know if he was your real brother or the member of this weird Game manosphere cult you talk about. According to my memory, and my friend, the only thing that you were able to keep inflated that night was your big clown hair. You can’t count it as a conquest if you can’t manage to keep it up hun, sorry to be the messenger. 0/0/0 How does it feel to have the tables turned you bastard?
if only those that protested were actually women and not just some things with manboobs and two holes.
…have you even looked at articles about the protests? LOL you’re a fucking moron
Its all for media exposure to drive business to their shop!
>to drive business to their shop
>implying that anyone with two brain cells to rub together is going to buy coffee at Waking Life now
keep dreaming, @Chris
Great job ruining your livelihood. Hopefully this will drive you out of Asheville. Get yourself some therapy. Don’t try and have sex with the therapist though. Ever thought about using some self control, try it you might like it. I feel sorry for you, because you are a very lost man. And also not a very wise man.
We all have our choice to make in whether we continue to give these guys our dollar vote at Waking Life. Personally, they lost mine. I daresay the term “douchebag” was made for these guys. I even feel a tinge of sorrow for them, but it might just be the lesson they need to refrain from such pathologically adolescent behavior in the future.
What these guys did sucked…but I can’t help but feel like “anonymous staff writer” has it out for them personally. I’m a little surprised they chose to be anonymous in an article attacking these two for their controversial internet activity that they too intended to be anonymous- was she a disgruntled “exploit” of one of the two owners of waking life? Even if this is not a personal attack, I expect better content on this blog…this seems more like sensationalistic tabloid material- more appropriate for the Facebook page “wax”. For the record I enjoy waking life coffee, but have no connection to the owners and could not have picked them out of a line up before reading this. I am also not leaving this comment anonymously.
And just so my comment is not misconstrued- I do not in any way support what the owners of waking life did- it’s awful and if any laws have been broken then legal action should certainly be taken against them.
Because of how the internet works. These two men deserve all the scorn heaped on them because they screwed up big time in a way that leaves little room for sympathy. A staff writer doing their job does not deserve it, whether you think they had some vendetta or not (give me a break). Yet there are legions of angry people on the internet who will do their best to stalk and harm those who threaten their ability to harm women without consequences.
I don’t expect you to believe me without having seen it for yourself, because jesus some of them are out-of-control sociopaths that need to be seen to be believed, but do a little research on the manosphere maybe.
Jared Rutledge’s apology is very misguided. He uses an anology where he is the victim, to speak about a situation where he is the VICTIMIZER.
Sell your business. Get out of town. Seek therapy. We don’t want you here.
Co-signed. Amazing how these types of people can so adeptly shift from being power-FUL to power-LESS, so long it suits their narrative. Well said, @Adam! Run them out on a rail and get your coffee from actual empathetic human beings.
Saddest thing is, there’s a whole lot just like him at The Red Pill – on blogs, on reddit, and all over the manosphere. Where haters of women congregate.
If his rape story is true (where he says he forced himself on a medicated girl in hospital, and he said she couldn’t have consented) I hope he goes to jail. I’m guessing it’s true, as his other stories are turning out to be true and about real women.
In regard to his casual sex exploits, it’s a strange thing when you hate and despise the people you’re having sex with. His apology sounds exactly like what it is – a scraping, scrambling attempt to redeem himself. It’s as convincing as nothing.
THEY AREN’T SORRY ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT BEING FOUND OUT! IF THEY WERE TRUELY SORRY, THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE BEHAVED IN SUCH A DISGUSTING MANNER IN THE 1ST PLACE! I THINK IT MAKES ME EVEN ANGRIER WHEN PEOPLE ARE SUDDENLY SORRY THE MINUTE THEY GET CAUGHT! I DON’T BUY IT FOR A MINUTE!!!
First of all, thank you so much to everyone who has played a part in bringing all of this to light. I will NEVER go to Waking Life again, and I know that there are many others who feel the same. I for one can’t wait to see these douchebags tuck their tails between their legs and get the hell out of our town.
However, having said that, I wanted to also remind people that looks can be deceiving. Much like these idiots duped and manipulated countless women for their sadistic purposes, it appears that one of the “peaceful protesters” that was pictured on a local FB page is deceiving people as well…one of those people tried to rape someone very close to me a few years ago. I couldn’t believe it when I saw them pictured as part of that group. It literally made me sick at my stomach to see their face. I find it quite ironic that they are now a part of a protest where folks are holding up signs about respecting women, when they clearly have no respect for anyone. This person is a pathetic, disgusting excuse for a human being and is just as bad (if not worse) than Jacob and Jarrod. So people, please be mindful of who you choose to associate with and/or admire. Not everyone holding a sign or supposedly “advocating” for womens’ rights is a good person. And to the person that I’m talking about (and you know who you are), do us all a favor and kindly rot in hell. Thank you.
I have a friend who’s had the same experience lately. The person who sexually assaulted them has shown up in support of consent and in opposition to rape and misogyny. It’s incredibly… just awful. I’m sorry that you’ve had to deal with that in the middle of all of this. You’re not alone.
I think I know who you’re talking about. Hit my friend across the face once, which of course promptly ended their relationship. Like the two predators we’re talking about here, he was a nice guy till you got him mad in private or worked up. Sorry you had to have those memories. Don’t know how that side of him is affecting him currently, he’s pretty active in the community. Hopefully anyone struggling with “should I beat / rape / post their most private aspects about an encounter online with this woman, or man?” will learn their lesson that the answer is always no, this little community has great power and good at diving up any secrets one tries to hide, it’s just that small.
The sad reality is that all our efforts are being thwarted by the growing popularity of social media. Different communities – online and offline – have their own culture, etiquette, and norms. Our ethics don’t change in different circumstances, but our decisions might.
The foundation of respect is awareness and transparency. It is apparent what was said, but what is more apparent is the hatred facilitated by the Asheville community toward Jared and Jacob. They fucked up big time and repercussions will come in time. But what I want to know is one thing: However you feel about this situation, are you creating peace or more violence?
This is so sad on so many levels. I pray these two guys get the help they need to work through the issues that would cause this behavior. Praying for the the women innocently involved and praying for these two guys to know Jesus and his love for them despite their behavior. May He use them to minister to other young men and boys who might be tempted to do similar acts.
Here you go….they have some supporters. Makes me sick and sad to know there are people who hide behind a keyboard to bash others all day long…
I stopped getting coffee there a long time ago. Got sick of always hearing one of the owners loudly talking about his failed dating attempts. Besides, sitting in an Ikea showroom is very uninspiring.
I think it’s interesting that these guys are under fire when Jeremy, the “cool” coffee truck guy for Izzy’s treats women the same exact way, taking advantage of them, manipulating them, and using them for his sick pleasure.I know several women he has taken to bed without full consent and others he’s dated for years while secretly having multiple women on the side. Hopefully he won’t be getting the business they are losing!
@adam “Jared Rutledge’s apology is very misguided. He uses an anology where he is the victim, to speak about a situation where he is the VICTIMIZER.
Sell your business. Get out of town. Seek therapy. We don’t want you here.”
Couldn’t be said better. Asheville doesn’t need scum like this.
I do not approve of running them out of town (out of sight/out of mind) to exploit another community, one probably not as strong as Asheville. Keep them here where we can keep an eye on them.
I agree 100%. You are better off keeping your psychopaths close at hand but knowing about them. This is what will keep Jared and Jacob in check. Going somewhere else and starting afresh they’ll probably learn to get worse.
I meant to say, keeping them close at hand AND knowing about them.
Go here to read all the completely awful things this guy said: https://jaredandjacobsaid.wordpress.com/
They need therapy.
After reading both apologies, I find comfort in many of the statements; though there are others that do not seem on the same field. As a sex abuse survivor from both childhood and as a college student, I can empathize with most of the men and women within our community that are upset and outraged. However, as someone who has healed through my own trauma, as well as insecurities, I do know that I need to stay on my side of the street. I do not condone what happened nor understand the mindset that goes into this type of behavior. But I would like to. I think it is completely inappropriate to tell someone to get therapy, tell them they are crazy and so on. It continues the behavior that you are opposing, which is demeaning and about someone you do not truly know. There is a way to get our points across more effectively without continuing what you so desperately want to stop, which to my understanding is behavior that is hurtful or unhealthy. I think the problem is seen at the surface through blogs and podcasts, but I believe the true issue everyone has is in having this type of thinking in the first place. I understand that as humans we cannot control our thoughts, but it is how we formulate those thoughts into opinions that makes us who we are. To me it is obvious that somewhere along the way this got very out of control. However, if you’re interested in a healthy conversation about this let me know.
Amen. What these men did was horrible, but some of these comments are pretty inflamed. These men are learning, I believe, that you cannot offend the sensibilities of the community that you serve and that nurtures you without serious repercussions, but, I can’t support this “run them out of town!” mindset, either. The apologies actually strike me as quite genuine. For those who disagree, ask yourself, what could they have said that would convince you of their sincerity? They truly cannot undo what has been done, but they can apologize, learn from it, and try to make amends. I think that should be encouraged.
I appreciate that the two men are open to in-person discussions with any of the aggrieved; I think that would be very healing, both for the women to be able to express their hurt and pain face to face, and for the men to feel it and feel the deep shame and regret appropriate for what they have done. They are right in saying that nothing can make up for what they have done, but, I think honest confrontation by the injured parties and the perpetrators is the road to peace, forgiveness, and healing for both sides. A road paved with tears and pain, but leading away from this disaster instead of compounding it.
Again, I do not condone what these men did nor the attitudes they revealed towards women; neither do I judge them or the women involved for seeking sexual companionship, just for how they treated the women (and themselves; there has got to be some self-hatred at work if you treat others with so little respect). Greater self-knowledge and compassion and respect for others is called for.
The double standard is ridiculous. I read the archived twitter and blog and this guy is a real fucking loser no doubt about it but lets not forget about the women that fall for such a schmuck. He gamed you at your own game. The American woman is in disarray. woman don’t like kind, thoughtful men they like, search out and have sex with the biggest assholes, even in our progressive, awesome little mountain town. Keep measuring men in inches, money and muscles ladies – continue perpetuating mediocrity!
This horrible story proves that American men have a problem, not American women. You shouldn’t blaim victims of rape and exploitation for their own victimization. Also, you might want to google the phrase “nice guy,” because you are the perfect stereotype (hint: they aren’t really that nice, and they project their insecurities onto women the same way Jared and Jacob did).
This hearkens back to 2008 and another dark chapter in Asheville’s history when another “respected member” of our community was revealed to be a serial rapist who had stabbed multiple women. I’m not suggesting (yet) that the crimes being discussed tonight are as severe, but the dysfunction of thought is the same- that women are responsible for satisfying men’s desires without any needs of their own, merely eye candy fucksocks to be thrown off on the unrealistic whims of narcissistic boy/men who weren’t taught any better by their fathers, mothers, their church, or their village. No-one should be surprised that these attitudes still exist, even in a “progressive” place such as Asheville. Our former sheriff, Bobby Medford, currently an inmate at the Butner Federal Correctional Complex, allowed his son to get away with repeatedly beating his wife and no other authority in Asheville did a damn thing about it (including corrupt former Buncombe County District Attorney Ron Moore, who also refused to adequately prosecute serial rapist above). Misogyny and male entitlement live everywhere. I understand and share the outrage over these latest revelations and there should be swift and grave consequences for the two ‘men’ involved if laws were broken, but we all have some responsibility for allowing misogynistic thinking and actions to prosper. These two men didn’t raise themselves.
not seeing post
The funny thing is, they think they deserve 10s. Look at them. They aren’t even 6’s as far as men go. And, they look like little guys…….I know this sounds shallow….just giving it back to them.
it’s unfair to the women listed in the blog to have their intimate information still available publicly for anyone to view. I know if it were me I would want this info about myself taken down immediately. I support the archiving of the blog content but some work needs to be done to redact sensitive info for the sake of the victims.
I am a woman on that list, and I have to agree. I am SO impressed at Asheville’s protests and the powerful responses from non-profits and businesses. But every time I read a new article or blog post that highlights what he wrote about me, it brings a huge wave of emotion. I am hoping this gets huge press so that it can become a larger discussion in our culture & I also fear that, for it means large numbers of people will be reading about me and the other women. No one has reached out to me to see how Im feeling about having been in that list, even though I know its obvious to some because of the details, and that feels pretty lame.
To all the people who want to run those guys out of town: Why, so they can gleefully prey on a whole new community? Or lay low while their sick attitudes fester until they ‘can’t help it’ and exploit women again? No, they are our problem, and I’d rather they suffer the consequences of their behavior here in an aware populace who will hold them accountable and, just maybe, get some help from the extensive therapeutic community we are so blessed to have.
There is no issue here if their sex partners were willing and not physically or mentally abused. Seriously, why be moral when others are willing to have what they want? Jesus, Mohammed, etc., would tell you not to judge!
There may be no *legal* issue if all the encounters were indeed mutually consensual, but, the legal standard is lower than the community’s moral standards. This article and the many comments and the protests are testament that there IS indeed an issue here. Most decent people do not like to be treated like these women were — used and discarded then written about disrespectfully — and most people would just as soon not support the businesses of people who act like that. I am basically a “live and let live” person, but, when this kind of information comes up, it’s hard not to think “I don’t want to support people who act like that.” Community is about so much more than just merely obeying the letter of the law. On the same token, I believe in forgiveness. It’s not for me or anyone else to tell the women they should forgive, but, as I said above, letting the women personally confront the men, force them to listen to how they affected others and own it, would be a healthy step towards forgiveness and healing all around. May it be so.
The scariest thing is that these guys don’t seem sleezy and creepy. I was hooking up with the main guy for about a month before he got weird, before that there were no signs. I’m lucky i seem to have missed being exploited on the blog, thank goodness. He never talked the way he did in the blog in person, he was intelligent and funny, and he seemed to really care about what you had to say. That’s what makes this all so much worse, he participated in sex that requires complete trust, and he violated that. These women will question ever having adventures sex forever, because now you see a man who isn’t trying to help you explore your imagination, but instead sees you as an orifice to stick his dick in. Guys like him are the scum of the earth, and totally deserve everything that’s coming to them. I hope they enjoy celibacy, and maybe one day just plain ole boring vanilla sex, because no one trusts them anymore.
Here is what I wonder…
Who found these guys out and decided to post it with their business, and not just their names?
Thus far, they are guilty of a lot of talk… unsavory talk, but just talk. The same words and deeds are found in many a movie and book… Think 50 Shades of Gray and Beyond. Are all of those people who are posting their dismay vanilla missionary twinks who have never had a dirty moment of sexual exploit??
If you think about how this whole thing has happened, beginning to end, there are some issues of privacy here… the blogger is being protected… and these men have had their livelihoods destroyed because they are bad boys using bad words. Did they do anything but talk and bed women who were out looking for a hook up? I dont know, but if it id going to be okay for someone unnamed to throw our personal business out for all to see, especially if it is sexual in nature, then I think we are all in trouble.
While these guys seem particularly crappy, do they deserve all this… and WHO WROTE THE BLOG that threw them out to the public…. and WHY?? This is a valid question! Why isnt anyone asking it??
This bothers me, too, that someone is calling others out for their bad behavior, but choosing to remain anonymous himself/herself. It takes courage to put your name on it as a whistleblower; the veil of anonymity, as we’ve seen, can cover a multitude of sins or less-than-healthy motives. If the allegations are true, and it seems likely, then these guys should be brought to account, but the vigilante justice that some in the crowd are seeking is pretty harsh and would serve no good purpose except to feed some people’s gleeful schadenfreude. Mob justice can run amock and make things worse. I hope that doesn’t happen here.
How many of you are transplants to Asheville? I remember West Asheville was quiet and peaceful about 15 years ago. Almost serene. Those days are gone. Where is all the drama coming from? There must be some sort of starting point from these guys and the person or group of people exposing and exploiting this situation. Everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon for whatever reasons.
“I have been calling women that I discussed on the podcast to express my full apology”
I call bullshit.
“There’s nothing to do but ask your forgiveness for any harm I’ve caused. I’m sorry folks.”
Excellent work on the fake repentant, “non-apology,” dude. Oh, and I hope the woman you raped in California sees the news from Asheville and presses charges.
This right here, folks, is what happens when a bunch of special snowflakes blow $100k on worthless Humanities degrees. Start learning Mandarin and convert to Islam, because this country is screwed.
A question to consider: Imagine these EXACT same things were done by two BLACK men, rather than two white men, does anyone REALLY believe feminists would be up in arms about it, or seeking to shame them publicly, or worse?? Some would be upset about it, for sure, but a lot more would probably be turned on by it, and want their phone numbers… men who knew what they wanted and took it, that’s sexy to a lot of women… as long as it’s not a white guy.
This is NOT a comment against black men in any way, and NOT trying to change this to a conversation about race, but what I am saying is that many feminists are absolute HYPOCRITES about these issues, and will attack and tear down white men for things that they would be a lot more tolerant of, if not sympathetic, if black men were caught doing them.
5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women | Cracked.com
Two words about blogging and podcasts: Free Speech
Two more words about blogging and podcasts: First Amendment
Twenty Three Additional Words for Offended Safe Space Whiners: If you don’t like an individuals free speech exercised via the first amendment then don’t read/view/listen whatever it is they’re expressing.
Thanks for sharing!